Monthly Archives: June 2023

Church History, Papal Primacy, Roman Primacy

“Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 6

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“…of making many books there is no end…” — Ecclesiastes 12:12

We continue this week with our analysis of Mr. Joshua T. Charles’ claim that he had found “profoundly [Roman] Catholic doctrine” in Ignatius of Antioch’s seven letters from 107 AD.  Mr. Charles, a former Protestant who converted to Roman Catholicism because Ignatius “red pilled” him into the truth, repeatedly claims to have read “tens of thousands of pages” of the Early Church Fathers, finding Roman Catholicism “absolutely everywhere,” and was particularly surprised by Ignatius.

Of the 10 points he listed, we have covered eight so far — the sacrifice of the Eucharist and the Real Presence of Christ in Part 2, the New Testament priesthood, Episcopal Succession and Episcopal Authority in Part 3, Roman Primacy in Part 4, and Baptismal Regeneration and Losing Salvation in Part 5.  As we showed last week, Ignatius’ reference to Jesus purifying the water in His baptism and breathing immortality into the Church in His anointing was not a nuanced affirmation of baptismal or confirmational regeneration. It was rather a rejection of the Gnostic teaching that Jesus could not come in contact with created matter. His call to “let your baptism endure as your arms” was not an affirmation of baptismal regeneration but was rather an imitation of the Pauline “whole armour of God” narrative in Ephesians 6. As for Mr. Charles’ claim that Ignatius taught that a Christian could lose his salvation, we found that Ignatius rather warned the congregations not to stumble into error lest they demonstrate that they had never received grace at all and had never been Christian. He did not warn them that they might “lose” their salvation.

We now address the last two of his “10 points”:

9. Schism and heresy from the one true Church possessing the one true Faith is not of Christ, and always unacceptable;

10. This one true Church is called the “Catholic Church.”

Continue reading “Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 6 →

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Baptismal Regeneration, Salvation

“Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 5

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“…of making many books there is no end…” — Ecclesiastes 12:12

We continue this week with our analysis of Ignatius of Antioch (d. 107 AD), or more accurately, our analysis of Mr. Joshua T. Charles’ analysis of Ignatius of Antioch. Mr. Charles, a former Protestant who converted to Roman Catholicism because Ignatius of Antioch “red pilled” him into the truth, repeatedly claims to have read “tens of thousands of pages” of the Early Church Fathers, finding Roman Catholicism “absolutely everywhere.” He was particularly surprised to find “profoundly [Roman] Catholic doctrine” in Ignatius’ letters, “point by point,” which “was apparent in just seven short letters.”

Of the 10 points he listed, we have covered six so far — the sacrifice of the Eucharist, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist in Part 2, the New Testament priesthood, Episcopal Succession and Episcopal Authority in Part 3, and Roman Primacy in Part 4.  As we showed last week, we could prove the primacy of any church we wanted using Mr. Charles’ rubric: “Ignatius speaks to X in a way that he never speaks to Y. Therefore, he must have thought X held the primacy.” Using that measuring stick, Ephesus, Magnesia, Tralles, Philadelphia and Smyrna also held the primacy, and in fact exceeded Rome in their discernment, prayer, primacy, stability, holiness and (Ignatius’ unkindest and slanderous insult) in not praying for the Devil’s will to be done. This week we pick up with Baptismal Regeneration and  Mortal Sin, or the ability to lose one’s salvation (points 4 and 5 in Mr. Charles’ list).

Continue reading “Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 5 →

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Church Fathers, Church History, Papal Primacy, Roman Primacy

“Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 4

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“…of making many books there is no end…” — Ecclesiastes 12:12

As we continue in our analysis of the genuine works of Ignatius of Antioch (d. 107 AD), we focus this week on the Roman Catholic claim that Roman Primacy can be found in his letters. In this series we have been assessing the claims of Mr. Joshua T. Charles, a former Protestant who converted to Roman Catholicism because Ignatius of Antioch “red pilled” him into the truth. Mr. Charles, repeatedly claims to have read “tens of thousands of pages” of the Early Church Fathers, finding Roman Catholicism “absolutely everywhere.” He was particularly surprised to find “profoundly [Roman] Catholic doctrine” in Ignatius’ letters, “point by point,” which “was apparent in just seven short letters.”

Of the 10 points he listed, we have covered five so far — the sacrifice of the Eucharist, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist in Part 2, and the New Testament priesthood, Episcopal Succession and Episcopal Authority in Part 3. As we demonstrated last week, because of Mr. Charles’ approach he finds more in Ignatius than Ignatius actually wrote, and indeed much more than even Mr. Charles bargained for. He claimed that Ignatius described a New Testament priesthood composed “primarily” of bishops based on Luke 10:16 — “He who hears you, hears me” — but we found that Mr. Charles had relied on the longer Greek recension of Ignatius’ letters, a recension the Catholic Encyclopedia denies to be authentic. Only the shorter recension is considered genuine, and those genuine letters do not apply Luke 10:16 to the Apostles. In fact, Luke 10:16 was spoken not to the Twelve but to the Seventy. Thus, anyone who claims to have found a succession of apostolic priests based on Luke 10:16 has completely misunderstood the verse, and anyone who claims to have found that construct in Ignatius is reading something he did not write. In fact, if we were to take Mr. Charles’ approach seriously, we would have found in the longer recension not only an unending line of priests that succeeded from the Seventy, but also an unending line of priests that succeeded from the Seven (Acts 6:1–8), since Ignatius is quite clear that he believed the Deacons had been “entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ” (to the Magnesians 6) and “the mysteries of Jesus Christ” (to the Trallians 2). And Jesus’ ministry is both priestly and prophetic.

This week we continue with the eighth point Mr. Charles found in Ignatius:

8. The Church of Rome has greater authority than other churches;

Continue reading “Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 4 →

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Church Fathers, Church History, Idolatry, Roman Primacy

“Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 3

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“…of making many books there is no end…” — Ecclesiastes 12:12

We continue this week with our analysis of the works of Ignatius of Antioch (d. 107 AD). We have been assessing the claims of a former Protestant who converted to Roman Catholicism because of the letters of Ignatius of Antioch. Ignatius, he claims, “red pilled” him into the Roman Catholic Church. Mr. Joshua T. Charles, former White House speech writer, former Protestant and now apologist, has read “tens of thousands of pages” of the Early Church Fathers and claims to have found Roman Catholicism “absolutely everywhere.” He was particularly surprised to find “profoundly [Roman] Catholic doctrine” in Ignatius’ letters, “point by point,” which “was apparent in just seven short letters.” As we showed last week, however, in his claims regarding the Sacrifice of the Eucharist and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Mr. Charles is reading those “thousands of pages” through a myopic medieval lens, leading to an interpretation that the native context does not bear out. To Ignatius, “the Eucharist” was the tithe offering for the widow, the orphan and the stranger (Smyrnæans, 6), and the ancient church indeed sacrificed the Eucharist as part of its weekly worship. But to them, the Eucharist was the offertory, a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving (Philippians 4:18; Hebrews 13:15-16), a sacrifice Protestants still offer today. Additionally, we showed that in Ignatius’ letter to the Smyrnæans, which Mr. Charles provided as evidence, all three uses of “Eucharist” were in reference to unconsecrated bread, and therefore cannot be references to the “real presence” of Christ. In sum, it is true that the ancient Church included an offertory in their weekly gatherings, but it is also true they did not believe Jesus was “really present” in the Eucharist and they did not believe they were sacrificing Him in the Lord’s Supper. What we continue to find as we evaluate Mr. Charles’ claims is that he tends to reject that which contradicts his preconceptions, and is naïvely receptive of data known to be spurious, redacted and fraudulent. Because of this, his reading of Ignatius is foreign to, and ignorant of, the native context of his letters.

 Of the ten “points” Mr. Charles identified from Ignatius, we covered two last week — the Sacrifice of the Eucharist and the Real Presence — and will address three more in this entry:

2. The New Testament ministerial priesthood;

6. Authority in the Church is exercised by bishops who are successors of the Apostles (apostolic succession);

7. Lay Christians must be under a successor of the Apostle’s authority, and cannot start their own independent congregations;

Continue reading “Tens of Thousands of Pages,” Part 3 →

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